建筑师说 | EMBT事务所·塔格里亚布

“作为建筑师，我们真正做的是探索

如何挖掘更好的可能性” 

“What we really do as architects was kind of 

making an adventure of possibilities of better aspects for humanity”

“我们不断尝试让建筑能像自然一样美，一样有力量”

“We’re trying to make an architecture, which is as powerful and beautiful as natural landscape. ”

“对于工业设计来说，需要一种建筑师不会用到的意识，

即对市场的敏锐度。”

“In terms of product, I think you need to have one 

kind of information that maybe architect don’t have.”

“我们如何创造城市，大型城市，

创造将人的活动，人与人的联系包括在内的环境，

这些都是我们要时刻谨记的东西。”

“How do we make cities, big cities and the surroundings work well with the movement of 

people and with the association of people. 

All of these are something we have to keep in mind.”

建筑师说 | 本期对话建筑师：塔格里亚布

▼ 塔格里亚布

普利兹克奖评委，Miralles Tagliabue EMBT建筑事务所创始人、主持建筑师，哈佛大学、哥伦比亚大学等知名建筑院校客座教授，米拉莱斯基金会主席

代表作品

▼ 苏格兰议会大厦

▼ 圣卡特琳娜市场

▼ 上海世博会西班牙馆

▼ 圣贾科莫教堂

采访正文

Topic 1 · EMBT

EMBT建筑事务所由米拉莱斯（Enric Miralles，1955 - 2000）和塔格里亚布（Benedetta Tagliabue）创立于1994年。

大多数EMBT项目都是由公众部门委托的，特别强调城市空间以及建成环境与公共空间之间的一致性，与此同时工作室非常重视每个项目的背景、历史和文化，并通过其独特的设计方式来反映每个地块的场所精神。

01

EMBT事务所的创立初衷

谈到初衷，那时我还是一名年轻的建筑师，在意大利和西班牙遇到了同样年轻的建筑师，我们都对建筑充满了热爱。意大利和西班牙的建筑有着非常完整的体系。比方说，在20世纪60年代的意大利，我们的设计大到城市，小到勺子。看似有点势不两立，但其实合情合理，因为我们建筑师的愿望是从各个方面、每种意义上创造一个更美好的世界。

当我遇到米拉莱斯的时候，我们更像是通过建筑得以相爱，我们都很热爱建筑，于是就开始了这场冒险。作为建筑师，我们真正做的是探索如何挖掘更好的可能性，又因为这种探索出自我们的家，我们的工作室，所以具有非凡的意义。

▲ EMBT事务所

Q1. As an international acknowledged studio, EMBT has been pioneering in the fields of architecture, public spaces and urban design for nearly 30 years. What is the original intention of founding EMBT?

I think the origin was, I was a young architect, and I met young architects in Italy and Spain, and we had a real passion, which was architecture. Architecture in Italy and Spain is very complete. 

Let’s say, in the ’60s in Italy, we designed from the city to the spoon. It was kind of mortal, but it was very interesting to explain that our wishes as architects were to make a better world in every aspect, every sense. 

When I met Enric Miralles, we were kind of in love with our profession. It was really something we loved to do. We started this adventure. What we really do as architects was kind of making an adventure of possibilities of better aspects for humanity, so it was very nice because it was from our home, our drawing room, offering something to the world.

02

一定要坚持的理念

举例来讲，有一次我和我的丈夫恩里克乘火车旅行，我看着窗外的风景，意大利的风景非常美，那样的美景使人痴迷，所以我跟他说“我们可能永远都做不出，像我如今看到的景色一样美丽，一样有感染力的建筑”但他却这样回答我“你刚说的，就是你毕生为之努力的目标”而我认为他说的是对的。

▲ 米拉莱斯与塔格里亚布

我们一直在尝试，让建筑能像自然一样美，令人震撼，这是不可言说的东西，我在每一个不同的项目中使用的方式都不同，这是一件非常任重道远的事。

Q2. EMBT has accumulated rich experiences in projects of different types and scales. During your practice, are there any ideas that must be persisted?

Yes. For example, one day I was travelling with my late husband Enric Miralles. I was in train. I was looking outside. Italy’s landscape is very beautiful, and I was in love with what I was seeing. I said, “You know, Enric, we will be never able to do an architecture as powerful and beautiful as the landscape I see from the windows now.” 

And he stopped me. He said, “Benedetta, you’ve just said what will be your work for all your life.” And I believe this is real. We’re trying to make an architecture, which is as powerful and beautiful as natural landscape. This is something you cannot say, I do it in one project, and next project I will do something different. It is a real effort. We are still work for that.

03

和甲方沟通的成功经验

我认为每个项目的合作过程都是很愉快的，虽然很难举出哪个方案最能说明这个问题，但确实是我们要求的这个合作的步骤，因为这十分重要，同时也很有乐趣。一方面，我很愿意在新项目的设计过程中认识新的人，与人产生联系，因为你和不同的人接触就总能学到一些东西。

▲ 圣卡特琳娜市场建造过程

我记得我们在每个项目中学到的经验，比如说，苏格兰议会大厦的学习成果是非常惊艳的，圣卡特琳娜市场更是难以置信的精彩，因为我们真的做到了和城市的每个部分产生联系。同样，上海世博会西班牙馆也是如此，因为那个项目将我带到了中国，我对于能和中国这样的国家产生联系而感到十分荣幸。

Q3.EMBT believes that the design process must be a collaborative effort between the clients and the designers. Would you like to share some successful cases that you and your clients achieved the desired solution together?

I think the process of collaboration is really pleasant in every project. It’s difficult to say which one is an example, but I think we choose to have this collaborated project process, because it’s very important. Also, it’s very good fun. In a way I love to meet people during the process of our project. I love to be in contact, and I love to learn, because when you are in contact with someone different from you, you can learn so many things. 

I remember every project we have been doing, like learning experience. For example, the Scottish Parliament was an incredible learning experience. The market Santa Caterina was more than incredible, because we were really in contact with every piece of the city. It was incredible. The Spanish Pavilion for Shanghai Expo was a wonderful learning experience. I am very grateful, because that pavilion brought me in China. I am so happy to contact with such an incredible place like China.

Topic 2 · Projects

EMBT事务所的每个建成作品，都是从特定的客户需求演变而来，创新精神贯穿于设计的整个过程。这种思维方式与强大的工程技术和结构解决方案相结合，为每一位客户提供高品质、个性化的服务。为了达到预期的理想效果，EMBT认为设计过程必须是由客户和设计师之间通力协作来完成的。

04

手作模型的特别意义

30年前，我和恩里克一起成立米拉莱斯事务所的时候，我们的工作都是手工完成的，我们非常擅长手绘图纸，手做模型。

而这在科技发展的时代那段经历则更加宝贵，双手是人们最后的工具，我们使用了几千年，我们的大脑和手已经配合的十分默契，对于和世界的联系也是难以忘记的。这是我们保留这个传统的原因，我们画草图，做概念模型，这是强调我们创造力的方式。

▲ EMBT事务所中的手作模型

Q4.Many architects once had the honor to visit your studio, and they were amazed by those handmade models. We think it’s great to insist on making models while the computers are developing rapidly. We were wondering if the models have any special meanings for your creativity.

When I started with Enric Miralles more than 30 years ago, we were doing by hands. We were especially good at drawing by hands and making crafted objects. I believe that is not something we can forget because we have new technology. The hand is the best tool for humans. We’ve been using it for thousands, thousands of years. Our brain is so connected with our hands. I think we cannot forget the connection with the world of creativity. That’s why we like to keep this way. We make sketches, make hand-made collage. We love to make hand-made models because it’s the way we enhance our creativity.

05

是否担心开创性的理念不被理解

是的，经常会有这种担心。很多时候人们不完全理解我们想要表达的东西，我们用一种人们不理解的充满创造力的方式创作，每条线都在现实有一席之地，这是建筑师都懂的道理，但不是所有人都明白。我们尽全力诠释我们的理念，也做很多演讲，我们过去没有意识到作品需要这样的解释，因为项目不只是一沓图纸而已，你需要进行全面的解析。

▲ 苏格兰议会大厦室内

这就说到我们1993的一个方案，一个很美，很小但又非常复杂的建筑，我们将线条，平面，功能放到3D模型里，这种方式效率意外的高，人们也可以懂得更多。现在我们有更多的工具可以与人交流，帮助人们理解建筑师，我们也在尝试更多利用这些工具。

Q5.During the course of modernism，Japanese architects learnt from western theory as well as kept the local identity. Are there any experiences you would like to share about this?

Yes, all the time. Many times people were not fully understanding what you were proposing. We were drawing in a very creative way, in a way which people were not understanding. You know, the one line for drawing all the reality. It’s a kind of code. This is a very sophisticated code. Architects can understand it, but not everybody. We try our best to explain our architecture. 

We did many many lectures like this one I am giving you. We were little conscious that we have to try to explain more. Project is not only a set of drawings. It is much more. You need a kind of complete explanation, not only at the beginning, also doing in the complete process. Now I’ll make an example of what you are asking me. When we are in the office, we are enjoying very much. 

▲ 苏格兰议会大厦外部

Going to the drawing we did in 1993, nearly 30 years ago, it was a very beautiful drawing, very small construction, very complex. We were doing an exercise, putting one line drawing, plan, sections into a 3-D model. This is incredibly different, so everybody can understand more. Now we have more tools to understand each other, to understand the projects, and we were trying to use them more.

06

做建筑和做产品的异同

工业设计需要一种建筑师不会用到的意识，即对市场的敏锐度。正常来讲，建筑师做的项目越大，需要的时间越长，我们不会被流行所影响，但是产品却需要迎合瞬息万变的市场。比如你最近设计了木灯，那对于生产商就要非常熟悉，我们设计的是很好的产品，但是只有客户知道什么东西会受大家的追捧。

▲ EMBT事务所的木灯

Q6.In addition to architecture, EMBT has also designed products. What do you think are the main differences and similarities between designing "a big house" and "a small product"?

In terms of product, I think you need to have one kind of information that maybe architect don’t have. You need to have the information on what is sold today in the market. Generally, when we architects do bigger projects, we have longer time in our mind. We are not influenced by fashions, but you must know what is the latest production and what is the latest thing. 

For example, we recently design a wooden lamp, and it was very important to have the knowledge of the producer. It was a very beautiful process, because we were proposing a lot of things, but among these things, the client knew what would be easy to sell. This is something I don’t know.

Topic 3 · Urban Design

EMBT在欧洲及中国积累了丰富的项目经验，服务于州及地方政府、企业和私人业主，在建筑、城市设计、市政规划、景观设计等方面积累了丰富的经验。

07

如何通过设计提升城市的幸福感

幸福这个词是很微妙的，建筑师并不经常用，但我们的最终目的总是希望做一些对人类有益的事，所以这个词还是很重要的，它为人们提供一种很好的感觉。

我觉得现在是时候尝试理解人是怎样回应环境的，什么样的建筑或公共空间使人感到更幸福，我们也正在这方面努力。比如说，我们的医疗中心项目，这是为癌症患者设计的，我们的设计初衷是让他们能在舒适的空间里忘记病痛，哪怕只是一个瞬间也好。我们对此进行了大量的调研，虽然并没有一个通用的公式，但我会在每个设计都问自己，这个地方会不会让使用的人觉得舒服。

▲ 卡利达圣保罗癌症中心

Q7.What do you think could be some feasible approaches to be made in order to enhance the happiness of a city through architecture, landscape and public space practices, just as the Santa Caterina Market in Barcelona?

The word happiness is subtle in a way. Architects don’t really use it so much, but it’s very important, because at the end what we are trying to do is to make the world better for human beings, which provides a better feeling, a wellness feeling, a kind of happiness. 

I think it’s time now to try to understand what is the human response to the environment, and how a place, a building and public space can make people feel happier. So now we are very much into that. We have a design, for example, a new medical center, which is a center for people who suffer cancer and can build there in a kind of moment to forget, a moment to relax. 

These places need to be very comfortable and need to make people feel that they can forget about problems. So we made a really investigation about that. We are trying. I think there is no one formula, but you can really ask yourself this question every time when you make a design, that is, is this place comfortable for people who will use it? This is something we are trying in every scale.

08

如何最大程度的挖掘历史建筑的价值

我们设计项目的第一条准则，是看一个城市不同时期的历史地图，这是非常有趣的活动，找到不同时期的地图，交叠在一起，就像是在了解一个地方的变化过程。

我们其实只有一个人可以创造这种时间的更迭效果，因为我们可以了解到一些特定场所在不同时期发生了什么，这带给建筑师一种预见能力，一种连续性。

▲ 德国生物多样性中心（设计竞赛一等奖）

北京的历史就非常精彩，美丽，强大，可以从中获得很多灵感。同样，欧洲，西班牙，意大利，历史的存在感很强，我们在一个充满历史感的地方设计会有点怯场，但是如果你看到了一个地方的时间沿革，并且再有所了解的话，做建筑就能容易一点。

Q8.Both Barcelona and Beijing are historic cities. How do you reflect the value of historic buildings and organically integrate them into contemporary life?

Our first rule, when we work on a new project, usually is to try to find historical maps of different timings. It’s really a fantastic exercise, because if you find different times in the maps, then you overlap them. It’s like understanding transformation of places. We have in fact, only one person who can make this transformation in time. 

This gives a kind of perspective of what we work as architects, and also a kind of continuity, because you can try to understand what happened in time in some specific places. Some places are incredible in terms of history like Beijing. The history is incredibly strong, incredibly beautiful. You can really get inspired by that. 

Also, in Europe, in Spain, Italy, the history has a very very strong presence. We can be sometimes a little shy as architects who work in a historical place. But if you look at the evolution of places, of history, and you understand a little bit of that evolution, being architects, it can be a little easier.

09

如何借鉴欧洲的城市建设经验

作为欧洲建筑师，我们可以从城市发展中总结出工作经验，但是中国面临着更大的挑战，中国城市更大，数量也更多。

中国现在经历的转变与我们的变化相比是巨大的，所以我为能参加中国的项目和竞赛而感觉非常兴奋，我们可以试着证实我们已知道的，同时寻找一个新的视角，新的场景使环境尽可能积极化。

▲ EMBT参加2011年国际园艺展览会，中国西安

北京及周边地区的土地利用和人口增长情况是非常明确的，居住人口越多，需要提升幸福感的人群基数就越大，正如我们说的创造更加舒服的空间。需要应用现有理论的地方有很多，我们正处于这个进程的进行时，这也是非常振奋人心的，并且希望可以越来越好。

如今的新技术正在帮助安抚人们，生态学，可持续性是关键点，我们想把能源最好的利用起来，是我们需要反复推敲的一点。我们如何创造城市，大型城市，创造将人的活动，人与人的联系包括在内的环境，这些都是我们要时刻谨记的东西。

Q9. Beijing-Tianjin-Hebei integration (BTHI) is a strategic move and major urbanizing strategies from the central government to the local government. which nowadays shifting our priority of work. As we know that you have many related experiences in cities such as Milan, Paris and Barcelona. From your point of view, how can Beijing learn from European experiences in terms of urban clusters?

I think, as European architects, we can give our work experience from what we have learnt of transformation of a city. But I think in China, you have a much bigger challenge, because your cities are very big, and the number is bigger than that in Europe. The transformation you are going through now is really enormous compared with our transformation. 

I am kind of excited by participating in competition and projects here, because I have a feeling that we can try to apply what we know, but in the same time, we are in a very new position, a new situation in which we have to try altogether to make as positive as possible. Because it is very clear that Beijing and surrounding areas are going to be very dense and populated, with many people living there. The challenge is to make everybody happier, as we were saying, and make a more comfortable place. There is not one thing to apply. There are many things to apply. I think we are in the middle of the process, which is very exciting. Hope it will go in a fantastic way.

I think now the idea of new technology is helping in the comfort of people. Ecology, substantiality is being a key point, because we want energy to be used in the best way. I think this is the points we have to consider. Also, the way human beings are associated - how do we make cities, big cities and the surroundings work well with the movement of people and with the association of people. All of these are something we have to keep in mind.

10

如何有效提升公共空间应对突发状况的能力

我们当前所处的特殊阶段对城市来说尤其不利，因为疫情期间大多数的城市都是不可用的，但是住宅越来越重要。人们的家必须使人感觉舒适，必须有你喜欢的材料，使你感到幸福的物品，因为你不知道什么时候，遇到新冠疫情这样的时期它就会变成你的“牢房”。

无论如何我还是希望大家能尽快出去享受公共空间，西班牙的住宅屋顶是一个可以给很多人使用的空间，大家可以使用这些个人化的公共空间，这是很重要的。所以居住区带有公共空间，室外空间都是非常必要的。

Q10.Never than before, normality has threatened by uncertain public emergencies. How could architects and urbanists improve the resilience of cities?

The pandemic is such a special situation. It’s not very nice in the sense of city because most of the cities are not usable. But house becomes very important. The house is a very important place to be comfortable, and to be very nice, and where you feel well, because one day it can be like a prison, so you like it to be a very lovely prison. Hahaha. 

And it’s very important to have a house with materials that you love, with objects that make you feel happy, because the situation like the one we have been living can happen. But anyway, I hope soon we will be able to have public space offer to everybody again. For example, in Spain, we have houses where the rooftop is a big palace for everybody, so neighbors can go and make turns to go in this kind of more personal, more individual public space. I think that’s very important. So houses with public spaces, with exterior space, are very vital.

Topic 4 · Pritzker Prize

2014年塔格里亚布凭借“对当今最佳建筑的深入和国际知识”而入选成为普奖评委。普奖评审团主席Peter Palumbo形容塔格里亚布作为建筑师的杰出身份和对建筑历史的深刻了解对于陪审团的审议将是无价的。

11

普奖得主最重要的特质

某些方面上讲，成为普奖评委是一个很让人享受的经历，每个评委都很棒，我们一起去看建筑师的作品，虽然找到共同空余的时间非常不容易，身边有很懂建筑标准的人是一件很棒的事。

评委会中不只有建筑师，也有很多其他领域的精英，和他们探讨建筑是很有趣的事，我们每个人心中都有自己好建筑的标准，我们一起的时候可以混合我们的想法，观点，这样总能碰撞出新的东西，我不能确定的说我们到底追求的是什么样的品质，每次都有不同的东西。

▲ 塔格里亚布被选为普奖评委

Q11. You are the Pritzker Prize Jury for several years. I think many architects would like to learn, what are the most important characteristics for a Pritzker Prize laureate from your point of view?

In a way, the Pritzker Prize jury is a very enjoyable experience, because every member of the jury is a fantastic person. I have to tell you that they are such fantastic jury members. We go together and visit places. We make a big effort to find some time to be together. 

This is very nice, because you have someone next to you who is very good at criteria in architecture. Sometimes it’s not architecture because there are not only architects in the jury. But they are always special people. It is very nice to have a conversation about architecture with other people of that kind. 

I think mainly each one of us has an idea of what good architecture is. When we are together, we can mingle our ideas, our opinions, and always something new comes out. I don’t think it’s easy to say what we are looking forward. Each one is looking for the best. From the point of you, when we were together, always something different came out every time.

12

建筑最大的社会价值体现在哪些方面？

建筑正在适应社会，如果你去看往期获奖的作品，那时重要的理念现在看来未必成立，社会在变化，标准也在不断改变，比如近期的奖项，我们将重心更多放在社会实验上，今年普奖得主的重点就是关注人们的每种需求，不是某个特定的阶级，而是为了每个人，这样的社会性。

▲ 2020年普奖得主Yvonne Farrell和Shelley McNamara

对RCR来说，是如何最好的服务于当地，最大程度的提升社区质量。所以我们有点像是在选择，能用不同方式将社会转译为建筑的设计师。

今年的得主Grafton本来应该有一个典礼的，但是因为疫情而推迟了，以他们举例，她们作为女建筑师可以用一种意想不到的方式将人们聚在一起，她们了解怎样用建筑强调社区开放的重要性，比如她们的利马大学校园让人印象非常深刻。

▲ 利马大学校园

Q12. From the perspective of the Pritzker Prize awarding, what is the greatest social value of architecture?

The Pritzker Prize is adapting to the society. I think if you looked at the prize, in the past, what was very important at the moment maybe would not be the same today. The criteria have to be changing, while the society has to be changing. I think recently in the prize, we are kind of giving more importance, maybe, to social experimentation. For example, choosing Yvonne Farrell, it was clearly being conscious about how important it is to focus on every need, not only of a certain class or level, but of everyone. And being very social.

Also, when the RCR was chosen, it was of importance of being local and understanding how you can serve local community in the best way with the best quality. So every time we are kind of choosing architects who are interpreting in different ways the society. 

▲ 利马大学校园剖面图

Grafton is very surprised, and it is a disaster because in May they should have a wonderful ceremony. We will have it a little later because of the pandemic. They are also fantastic that women architects who are able to do spaces or learning to put people together in different and unexpected ways, so that they enhance this possibility of opening communities in different ways with the buildings. I think when we see the Lima building of Grafton, you will be very impressed.

13

女建筑师的最大挑战

我认为女性建筑师面临的最大挑战是宣传我们的能力，因为一直以来这都是一个由男性主导的专业，这个专业与建设，政治，和决策相关。直到近期，女性都很难参与这项工作，但现在女建筑师去设计，去建造已经成为可能，所以我们必须要将以前没有被考虑到的都表达出来。

拿常识来说，关于社会的思考，女性因为过去几千年中照顾家庭的经验而更了解家庭这个单位，所以我们会将建筑向那个方向靠拢，在这个方面我们还需要付出更多努力。

▲塔格里亚布担任2016年女建筑师论坛轮值主席

Q13.Yvonne Farrall and Shelley McNamara are influential female architects around the world. What do you think is the biggest challenge for today’s women in architecture?

I think, the biggest challenge for women architects is to introduce our women capacities. In this profession which have been so usually giving to men in the past. You know, this profession is dealing with construction, which is a very hard thing to do with politics, with decision-making. Until very recently, it was very difficult for women to be part of that. 

But now, women have more possibilities to be architects to design. We have to introduce everything which was not so considered. One example is common sense, like or being able to think  about the society. I think we women are more able to think about family because in the past millennia women were the one who were really looking after the family. So we have to make architecture which is a little like that. There are still a lot to do in this sense.

Topic 5 · Education

塔格里亚布积极参与建筑教育等许多领域，她曾是哈佛大学，哥伦比亚大学和巴塞罗那ETSAB的客座教授，并定期在世界各地的建筑论坛和大学演讲，2004年获得爱丁堡纳皮尔大学艺术与社会科学学院的荣誉博士学位。

14

最想要传授给学生们的知识、理念或技能

我总是期待学生们可以探索新的东西，有时候学生会以为自己已经了解很多知识，但是如果在某个方向加以引导，推他们一把，也许起初他们会觉得很难，但经过一段时间他们就会有所收获。

从他人那里学到东西，和帮助别人向某个离开舒适圈的方向探索，这两者之间的关系是很美妙的，成长总是伴随着痛苦，得到启发的同时强迫他们了解更多是很有意义的一件事。

▲塔格里亚布主持大米兰地区规划研讨会

Q14.In the teaching field, as a visiting professor at Harvard, Columbia University and Barcelona ETSAB, could you share some goals you ever expected your students to achieve?  

I always expect students to discover something, you know. Sometimes you think that you already know a lot of things as students, but it’s nice to push the students to go in a direction that maybe at the beginning they don’t like. And after a while, they discover something. It’s always a nice relationship between letting the other person offer you something. in the same time, push a little bit in another direction which is not so comfortable. From the non-comfort moment, it’s kind of learning experience. It’s a kind of nice game between being accepting and being pushing a little.

15

如今学生和过去学生的区别

当今的建筑学生有很多工具可供选择，而90年代的学生必须学习怎样用手画出非常精确的图纸，现在却不是这样，学生可以利用电脑绘图得出很棒的结果。

但是建筑不只是画出好看的图纸，更关于一种正确的思考方式，在正确的场所使用正确的语言，将你的理念赋予你的作品，这两者之间是很不同的。

Q15. What are the big differences between today's architecture students compare the time while you were an architecture student?

Today's architecture students are able to manage many tools, drawing tools in a fantastic way. When we were in the ’90s, students had to learn how to draw in a way we keep the technic of drawings in our hands. Now this is not so. Students have the capability of managing computer programs and doing fantastic results.

But architecture is not the only to make fantastic results. It’s also about thinking in the right way, using the right language in the right moment. Put your mind in what you are doing. This is a great difference.

16

给新一代的青年建筑学子寄语

学生必须时刻谨记自己的目标，我所理解的目标总会是为人们创造更美好的世界，像Alison Smithson 和Peter Smithson就有这样的理念，Alison常说你离开一个地方的时候起码不能让它比你来的时候更糟，这句话很有讽刺意义，也是我们需要努力的方向之一，我们必须为变得更好而不断努力。

▲ Alison Smithson 和Peter Smithson

Q16. If there are a few words you'd like to share with today’s architecture students, what would that be?

They have to keep in mind what is their main goal. I think the main goal is always to make a better world and better for people, so it’s very simple. Usually we had in our mind an architect like the couple Alison Smithson and Peter Smithson. She was always saying at least please don’t leave the place worse than you have found it. She was very British. She is very sarcastic. This is a little effort we have to do. We have to make transformation towards going better.

观众提问

01

如何畅想建筑和城市的未来

我有一个非常美好的畅想，城市用更少的能量运转，并且因此更干净，社区尺度不大，但是却可以承载多种功能，人们得以使用更多充满绿色的公共空间，他们以这种平和的方式与彼此相遇并从中获得幸福感。同时生活也非常高效，这是我们需要共同努力的事，我每做一个新竞赛的时候，概念和想法都是基于客户的，属于当下的，这也是所有人共同期待的。

Q1. It is not an easy way to be an architect. We’ve collected some questions from the audience and selected two questions. The first one is, you have been enthusiastic in many international architectural activities in addition to the Pritzker Prize. Based on your vision and experiences, how do you imagine the future of architecture and cities？

I have a very fantastic imagination. Cities which can work with less energy, which can be cleaner, which can provide by a kind of small communities even if there are enormous well-communicated ones. Human beings can have space where they can feel comfortable because it’s full of green and it’s given this kind of comfortable feeling where you can meet people in a peaceful way. 

But in the same time, you can move very fast, very easily and arrive at other communities. I think this is something we have to try altogether. I think when I do a new competition, this idea is very present and also is the base from the client. I think this is something everybody looks forward.

02

表皮处理的心得

西班牙馆这个项目，更多的是展示材料，所以相对容易，但是材料又是一个很特殊的对象，我们很乐于调查一种材质并且发明使用的新方法。我们在巴塞罗那的项目想做陶瓷立面，所以我们试着用一种经济的方式，同时让它可以讲出这城市的历史，因为陶瓷属于传统加泰罗尼亚材料，我想要延续这种传统材料的生命力，所以我们现在致力于开发材料的新使用方式以及用此设计建筑立面。

▲ 西班牙馆内部

Q2. The second question is: your projects, for example, the Spanish Pavilion at 2010 Shanghai World Expo, always present interesting facades. Are there any approaches you would like to share with us in this aspect?

In the case of Spanish Pavilion, in a way it’s one material façade, so it’s kind of easy. But the material is a very special one. We very much like to investigate on materials and to invent new ways of using them. 

For example, in the building we built in Barcelona, the calider Center (39’38) from the magi network. This has a ceramic façade. We are trying to use ceramic in a cheap way, but also in a very elaborate way, because this is also traditional Catalonian and I want this tradition to be extended and experimented. I think we are now interested in designing facades and in new ways of using materials.

彩蛋问题·幸福的秘诀？

我觉得这个问题更应该中国人来回答，我有时候会去公园里面练太极，这是保持心态平和保持幸福的方式之一，这是从中国学到的。

我们必须要照顾好自己，努力让自己保持快乐，平静，稳定的情绪状态，这是很重要的，这和我们每天洗漱吃饭等等来照顾我们的身体是一样的，也许我们也要这样照顾我们的灵魂，并且同时主动做一些让我们感到快乐的事，更积极的面对我们的生活。

What is the secret of being happy. I think everybody wants to know the answer. We are having a fantastic conversation with you and we see the positive from you.

I think I should ask you. In China you have millions of secrets of being happy. For example, many days I have many possibilities of going to parks and practice Tai Ji in the park. It’s one of ways of trying to be harmonious and happy. This comes from China. 

I believe we have to look after ourselves very much and try to be happy, peaceful, and be in a harmonious state. It’s a very important thing to look after. It’s something like looking after your own body, you have to take a shower maybe every day and brush your teeth. Maybe we have to do the same for our soul. We have to look after it and do something to help us to feel happier and appreciate our life more fully. 

今年是世界之旅与EMBT和塔格里亚布相识的第10个年头，采访正值疫情特殊时期,深处在欧洲的朋友正经受着严峻的考验。然而她开朗的笑容和朋友间简单而真诚的问候提醒着我们黑暗中总有一丝光明。

塔格里亚布作为女建筑师的细腻感知、不断寻求更好的创作精神，让她的作品同她本人一样散发出由内而外的幸福感。我们也期待未来EMBT事务所的更多精彩作品，将这样的温暖散播到世界各地。

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